(Sumatra PDF viewer) -- Useful Keyboard Shortcuts ?

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

anyone (else) using Sumatra PDF viewer?

I prefer Okular. It’s a general-purpose document viewer, with a whole host
of back-ends for formats like PDF, DJVU, EPUB, CBZ, PostScript ... even
CHM.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

anyone (else) using Sumatra PDF viewer?

yes, but didn't see your O/P.

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I prefer Okular. It’s a general-purpose document viewer, with a whole host
of back-ends for formats like PDF, DJVU, EPUB, CBZ, PostScript ... even
CHM.

I think the only filetype on your list that sumatra doesn't handle is
postscrip

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I prefer Okular. It’s a general-purpose document viewer, with a whole
host of back-ends for formats like PDF, DJVU, EPUB, CBZ, PostScript ...
even CHM.

I think the only filetype on your list that sumatra doesn't handle is
postscript.

Okular does other formats as well.

[HenHanna]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

anyone (else) using Sumatra PDF viewer?

I prefer Okular. It’s a general-purpose document viewer, with a whole host
of back-ends for formats like PDF, DJVU, EPUB, CBZ, PostScript ... even
CHM.

Is there a viewer for .doc files?

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by HenHanna
Is there a viewer for .doc files?

.doc is an extension often used for text files, e.g.
<https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/tree/master/src/3rdparty/adaptagrams/libavoid/doc?ref_type=heads>.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by HenHanna
Is there a viewer for .doc files?

.doc is an extension often used for text files, e.g.
<https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/tree/master/src/3rdparty/adaptagrams/libavoid/doc?ref_type=heads>.

No, sadly ".doc" files are in an older Word format, and people often send
them when they think they are sending text files... and they wind up
sending an awful lot of metadata that they might not want to be sending
(like the undo history). LibreOffice will read Word files and let you
export to text, pdf, or rtf formats which are safe to share.
--scott

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by HenHanna
Is there a viewer for .doc files?

.doc is an extension often used for text files, e.g.
<https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/tree/master/src/3rdparty/adaptagrams/libavoid/doc?ref_type=heads>.

Traditionally .doc was reserved for documentation files, and the format
was plain text. The meaning changed because of Microsoft's habitual
contempt for standards.

Post by Scott Dorsey
No, sadly ".doc" files are in an older Word format, and people often
send them when they think they are sending text files... and they
wind up sending an awful lot of metadata that they might not want to
be sending (like the undo history). LibreOffice will read Word files
and let you export to text, pdf, or rtf formats which are safe to
share.

At our university we once had a Vice-Chancellor who believed in sending
out "all staff" memos by e-mail in MS-Word format. I think he composed
them by taking an existing MS-Word file and altering the contents. He
apparently didn't know about the "revision history" feature, so he ended
up leaking a lot of confidential documents.

At the time I didn't have a Windows computer, so all the metadata
appeared to me as plain text. I could have read the intended content
with OpenOffice, but one doesn't normally set up a mail program to
invoke a word processor.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by HenHanna
Is there a viewer for .doc files?

.doc is an extension often used for text files, e.g.
<https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/tree/master/src/3rdparty/adaptagrams/libavoid/doc?ref_type=heads>.

Traditionally .doc was reserved for documentation files, and the format
was plain text. The meaning changed because of Microsoft's habitual
contempt for standards.

Post by Scott Dorsey
No, sadly ".doc" files are in an older Word format, and people often
send them when they think they are sending text files... and they
wind up sending an awful lot of metadata that they might not want to
be sending (like the undo history). LibreOffice will read Word files
and let you export to text, pdf, or rtf formats which are safe to
share.

At our university we once had a Vice-Chancellor who believed in sending
out "all staff" memos by e-mail in MS-Word format. I think he composed
them by taking an existing MS-Word file and altering the contents. He
apparently didn't know about the "revision history" feature, so he ended
up leaking a lot of confidential documents.
At the time I didn't have a Windows computer, so all the metadata
appeared to me as plain text. I could have read the intended content
with OpenOffice, but one doesn't normally set up a mail program to
invoke a word processor.

And they made it even more confusing by introducing .docx too.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by candycanearter07
And they made it even more confusing by introducing .docx too.

That’s a whole new format, which Microsoft has tried to railroad through
as some kind of “international standard” (ISO 29500). Except the
specification document is so opaque and incomprehensible, nobody can be
sure when they’ve implemented it properly or not. So “compatibility” falls
back to meaning “compatible with Microsoft Office”, not “conforming to an
official spec”.

Stick to ODF, aka ISO 26300. It’s only a small fraction of the complexity,
and much easier to get right.

[Jeff Barnett]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

anyone (else) using Sumatra PDF viewer?

I prefer Okular. It’s a general-purpose document viewer, with a whole host
of back-ends for formats like PDF, DJVU, EPUB, CBZ, PostScript ... even
CHM.

Is there a viewer for  .doc   files?

Not exactly. However, there is OpenOffice and another (name escapes me
at the moment) that are 1) free and 2) provided for virtually all
Microsoft formats plus open ones that subsume the M$ formats. You can
use these packages as viewers, composers, and editors. In fact, you can
edit and save old format documents in either old or new formats. A small
victory for the open software folks.

I ran into a need for this stuff since idiots at our local zoo were
sending out .doc files via email to volunteers such as I (or is that
me?). Given that many of these volunteers where elderly and not willing
or able to plunk down a few hundred dollars these heads-up bulletins
didn't work very well. I told the volunteers about the free software and
the staff to learn how to use the tools provided and produce pdf files.

If I sound a little upset with M$ to you and off topic, your hearings
good. I remember a few decades ago that simultaneously: 1) DARPA our
declared all-advanced research funder in the USA required that every
proposals to them be prepared using, in part, M$ tools while 2) at the
same time the Justice Department was investigating and suing M$ for

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

However, there is OpenOffice ...

Nobody should be bothering with OpenOffice any more. Use LibreOffice
instead.

[Jeff Barnett]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

However, there is OpenOffice ...

Nobody should be bothering with OpenOffice any more. Use LibreOffice
instead.

That was the other one with the name I couldn't dredge up. I hear it's a
better product (performance and maintenance) and will try it when we
build new computers fairly soon. Still using 10 yr old Win 7 machine
that's fast enough for Photo Shop and Games but software needs serious
updating.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Jeff Barnett

Post by HenHanna
Is there a viewer for .doc files?

Not exactly. However, there is OpenOffice and another (name escapes
me at the moment) that are 1) free and 2) provided for virtually all
Microsoft formats plus open ones that subsume the M$ formats. You can
use these packages as viewers, composers, and editors. In fact, you
can edit and save old format documents in either old or new formats.
A small victory for the open software folks.

And can even handle Microsoft formats that Microsoft no longer supports.
This solves a legal problem, in countries that requires companies to
keep business records for a longer time than they can be read with M$
software.

Post by Jeff Barnett
If I sound a little upset with M$ to you and off topic, your
hearings good. I remember a few decades ago that simultaneously: 1)
DARPA our declared all-advanced research funder in the USA required
that every proposals to them be prepared using, in part, M$ tools
while 2) at the same time the Justice Department was investigating
and suing M$ for being a monopoly!

Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had suddenly
adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format. What the
conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of lines per
page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it depended on
which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4 pages. When
the conference proceedings were published, about half the papers turned
out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.

(For those who don't know, PDF doesn't have this problem.)

[Jeff Barnett]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Jeff Barnett

Is there a viewer for  .doc   files?

Not exactly. However, there is OpenOffice and another (name escapes
me at the moment) that are 1) free and 2) provided for virtually all
Microsoft formats plus open ones that subsume the M$ formats. You can
use these packages as viewers, composers, and editors. In fact, you
can edit and save old format documents in either old or new formats.
A small victory for the open software folks.

And can even handle Microsoft formats that Microsoft no longer supports.
This solves a legal problem, in countries that requires companies to
keep business records for a longer time than they can be read with M$
software.

I hadn't thought of that - I retired years ago and haven't dealt with
some of the fine parts of reality.

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Jeff Barnett
If I sound a little upset with M$ to you and off topic, your
hearings good. I remember a few decades ago that simultaneously: 1)
DARPA our declared all-advanced research funder in the USA required
that every proposals to them be prepared using, in part, M$ tools
while 2) at the same time the Justice Department was investigating
and suing M$ for being a monopoly!

Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had suddenly
adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format. What the
conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of lines per
page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it depended on
which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4 pages. When
the conference proceedings were published, about half the papers turned
out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.
(For those who don't know, PDF doesn't have this problem.)

Most conferences not only demand LaTeX submissions, their sponsoring
organizations provide class/format files that deal with matters of
appearance and typesetting as well as producing pdf while you are
developing your contribution at office or home; they also are able to
use different back ends when producing proceedings or other publications
from the originals. What improvements in all this in the last 30-40

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by Peter Moylan
Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had suddenly
adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format. What the
conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of lines per
page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it depended on
which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4 pages. When
the conference proceedings were published, about half the papers turned
out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.

Long-standing problem with Microsoft Office. Office diehards often
complain that LibreOffice isn’t “100%-compatible” because when they try
moving documents between the two, the layout changes in some unexpected
way. What they don’t realize is that the Microsoft product isn’t
consistent with itself, and is quite capable of screwing up layouts on its
own.

[Jeff Barnett]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Peter Moylan
Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had suddenly
adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format. What the
conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of lines per
page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it depended on
which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4 pages. When
the conference proceedings were published, about half the papers turned
out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.

Long-standing problem with Microsoft Office. Office diehards often
complain that LibreOffice isn’t “100%-compatible” because when they try
moving documents between the two, the layout changes in some unexpected
way. What they don’t realize is that the Microsoft product isn’t
consistent with itself, and is quite capable of screwing up layouts on its
own.

Amen.
--
Jeff B

[charles]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Peter Moylan
Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had
suddenly adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format.
What the conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of
lines per page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it
depended on which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4
pages. When the conference proceedings were published, about half the
papers turned out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.

Long-standing problem with Microsoft Office. Office diehards often
complain that LibreOffice isn‘t ”100%-compatible• because when they try
moving documents between the two, the layout changes in some unexpected
way. What they don‘t realize is that the Microsoft product isn‘t
consistent with itself, and is quite capable of screwing up layouts on
its own.

Indeed so, been there, bought the T-Shirt

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by charles

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Peter Moylan
Years ago I submitted a research paper to a conference that had
suddenly adopted a rule that all submissions must be in MS-Word format.
What the conference organisers didn't realise was that the number of
lines per page depended on non-portable local conditions. (I think it
depended on which printer was installed.) Submissions were limited to 4
pages. When the conference proceedings were published, about half the
papers turned out to have a length of 4 pages plus 2 lines.

Long-standing problem with Microsoft Office. Office diehards often
complain that LibreOffice isn‘t ”100%-compatible• because when they try
moving documents between the two, the layout changes in some unexpected
way. What they don‘t realize is that the Microsoft product isn‘t
consistent with itself, and is quite capable of screwing up layouts on
its own.

Indeed so, been there, bought the T-Shirt

With conference papers the issue is most often A4 vs. American Letter paper
sizes. Word handles this particularly badly.
--scott